Joan Rivers has long been a stand-up comedy trailblazer, fighting for respect in a male-dominated field a decade before Tina Fey and Amy Poehler were even born. In recent years, however, that respect has often been tempered by outrage, as her increasingly brutal and personal put-downs have found opposition in an era where language is often held up to microscopic scrutiny. Her new book, “Diary of a Mad Diva,” out Tuesday, is written in the form of a 2013 diary, but is really a compendium of politically incorrect put-downs. We spoke to Rivers about her no-holds-barred style — and learned which celebs can take a joke and which have skins as thin as tissue paper.
Your book has disclaimers in the front, in the middle and at the end. They’re humorously written, but still legitimate statements of, “I don’t care if you’re offended by this.” Why did you decide to include these?
If someone’s that dumb, to take what I’m saying seriously, then whoever is reading the book to them should have three chances to tell them. We’ve already had two people threaten to sue us, and I am so excited. I wanna go into court, and I want them to prove, for example, “Show me where you touched your director.” If they’re that stupid to take it seriously, then I can’t wait to get into court and let the world know.
Can I assume from that comment that one of those people is Kristen Stewart [Rivers writes that the actress “got a whole career by being able to juggle directors’ b - lls”]?
I’m really not allowed to say. Lemme just put it this way — I can’t wait to get an anatomically correct dummy in court, and have her show me which b - ll she touched.
There’s been a definite increase in politically correct attitudes toward comedy over the last few years.
Except for me, who will not apologize to the Norwegian Cruise Line. I said on the “Today” show that [Rivers’s daughter] Melissa’s guest room makes the room the girls in Cleveland were in look nice. [Rivers was referring to the three kidnapped women held prisoner by Ariel Castro until 2013.] And the girls in Cleveland got very upset — especially the one who had her new book out [Michelle Knight]. Their lawyers and p.r. people contacted me. But it was all done and forgotten. Then I was gonna on the Norwegian Cruise Line, and they canceled me because they said they were a family cruise line. I said they were afraid of what I was gonna say when I saw their cabins. I would not apologize, and I cannot tell you how many comics called me and said, “Good for you.” We don’t apologize for a joke. We are comics. We are here to make you laugh. If you don’t get it, then don’t watch us.
There’s such an oversensitivity to comedy these days. Why do you think this is happening?
I think it’s from people that are so damn uptight. I had a big fight over [Donald] Sterling. The man can be a bigot, the man can be disgusting, but he said something in private. I was at a dinner party, and I said, “I want people to put their hands up, that no one here has ever called anyone [Rivers uses several ethnic slurs as examples]. Then shut up!” You know what I mean? Enough. We’re all so uptight, we’re so uptight with political correctness, this country is just insane. Insane. And the comics are the only ones left to say the emperor has no clothes.
You do an equivalent of that in your book. In just the first four pages, you mock Mexicans, slavery and Anne Frank.
Oh yeah. I talk about everybody in the book. And later on, I’m talking about my maid, who only eats dog. It’s all through the book. It’s all silly, for God’s sake. Again, everybody’s something, so who cares?
How has the style of your jokes evolved over the years?
Life is much rougher, so comedy is much rougher. I say things onstage that I never would have even thought to say 10 years ago. When I was pregnant on “The Ed Sullivan Show,” I couldn’t even say I was pregnant. I was seven months pregnant, and I had to say, “Soon I’ll hear the pitter-patter of little feet.” Everything has changed so much.
When did you start to sense that the culture was changing enough to allow you to say these kind of things, and when did you start making your jokes cruder and more biting?
I don’t know. It just happened. My agent did a survey of the average age of who watches me — who watches “Fashion Police,” who watches [her Web series] “In Bed With Joan.” They’re 22.7 years old. Obviously, I’m doing something that’s relevant to the new generation. I live very much in the present. I read all the magazines, I read all the newspapers. People always say, when would you like to have lived? I always say, right now. I just changed along with the times. I’ve never said, now I can do this. It just happens automatically.
It seems like in the beginning of your career, you were your biggest target. Now, the venom is more spewed toward others.
Oh, no. You have to see my act. Don’t worry. I’m not through with me at all.
It does seem, though, that there are certain people you talk about in the book with a genuine dislike, whereas for others, it’s clearly a joke.
Do you have an example, because I don’t mean it to be.
Tyra Banks.
I’ve heard not very nice things about her. I’ve never had an encounter with her, though. So that may be all subliminal. But that makes sense. You hear things about certain people. When you hear someone was mean to a limo driver or a wardrobe lady, or someone was rotten to a fan, somewhere in your brain it gets stuck.
I also sensed it with Lena Dunham.
No, no, no. I like her very much. I think what she’s done is amazing. But I don’t like that there’s a certain group of women that feel very . . . “poor women comedians.” There’s that whole little group. “Oh, women comedians, nobody loves us and nobody wants us.” I mean, this is a time for women comedians, my God. We’re ruling the world at this point. They’re doing anything they wanna do, and Lena’s got her own thing. This is such a great time for women comics. Everybody calm down.
It’s starting to sound like “calm down” should be your motto.
It’s silly. Life goes by fast. Enjoy it. Calm down. It’s all funny. Next. Everyone gets so upset about the wrong things.
So none of your jokes ever serve as vendettas?
Oh, no. Now I’m [gonna be] serious. I have been so lucky in life — that you’re even talking to me at this age, that I have all these shows on the air at this age, that I’m relevant at this age, that 22-year-old people are watching me. I never dwell on what happened. You can’t change it. Move forward. Don’t waste your energy on being angry at something that somebody did six months ago, or a year ago. It’s over. Done. Move forward.
Who are your favorite celebrities to mock?
Who’s the latest in the headlines? Kim and Kanye, God bless them. I love the Kardashians. Every time I see them, I say, “I hope you stay famous forever, because that’s five minutes of my act.” Thank you, God. Thank you for the Kardashians. Thank you for Rihanna and Chris Brown. I just hope nothing happened in rehab, that he came out a good person. There goes seven jokes. It’s whoever’s in the headlines at the moment.
Are there any people you get sick of joking about?
When they get old hat. When you go, yuccchh, enough already. Adele, I know she’s chubby, but nobody cares because she doesn’t have a new hit yet. Miley Cyrus has come through it. She was wonderful for a while when she was really slutting it up. Now, it’s over. I like whoever [society is] talking about. We all do.
Chelsea Handler just left her E! show because, she said, she was sick of talking about Justin Bieber and the Kardashians. You never get sick of that?
When I do, I stop talking about them. No one’s putting a gun to my head. If I’m bored with talking about Justin Bieber, I’ll stop talking about Justin Bieber. The kid was just baptized in a friend’s bathtub. You go, this is fabulous. This is great. Did he push the ducky aside? This is terrific. Even if he just put his head in, there’d be a ring around the tub. No, these are all gifts from God.
Are there any famous people you dislike so intensely you won’t even joke about them, because your obvious hatred would kill the laugh?
Just the opposite. I am very aware of Mel Gibson and his denial of the Holocaust, so that always goes somewhere into my act.
[Note: Gibson never publicly said that.]
Do many of the people you joke about get mad at you for it?
It’s very common. My Christmas card list is down to four people. The smart ones get it. Sarah Jessica Parker always comes up to me and says, “Say it to my face,” and you just adore her for that. Cher got mad when I took her out of my concert act. “What’s the matter? Why aren’t I still in the act?” The smart ones get it. The more people hear about you, the more relevant you are. Julia Roberts will come up and say, “OK, here it is, tell it to me now, what are you gonna say?” These are the ones you just adore. They get it. And any comic. You give me Robin Williams, Louis C.K., Tracy Morgan, who I adore, Jimmy Fallon. The comics know what’s going on, and they say, “OK, let’s have fun. Let’s banter.”
Which celebrities have had the absolute worst reactions to things you’ve said about them?
I guess Kristen Stewart now is No. 1 on the hit list. I know she’s upset. Someone told me the Kardashians are getting upset, which is stupid. Just go with it and laugh it off, you idiots. Mary Tyler Moore didn’t talk to me for 21 years, and finally, I grabbed her. At this age, the two of us are finding our table with braille. I said to her, “Why are you angry at me?” And she said, “You did a joke that I looked like the Joker.” I didn’t even remember the joke. It wasn’t even a good joke. I go, “You’ve been angry for 21 years over a joke that wasn’t even good? That’s stupid.” As I said, the smart ones don’t even think about it. When you’re making $25 million a movie, or the dresses are given to you, when you’re living this amazing life, you’re gonna worry that a comic made a joke about you? That’s what’s bothering you? That’s crazy.
In the book, you write about how you went to the Web site Celebrity Net Worth and discovered that Paris Hilton was worth so much more than you at $100 million. Are you aware that the same site has your net worth at $150 million?
[Laughs] That’s why I sold my country house two years ago — because my accountant said I couldn’t afford it. Boy, is he in for a surprise. That number is waaaaaayyyy off.
Do you enjoy performing as much as you always did?
I like it more, because you can say more. I love where comedy’s at now, and at my age, I’m not afraid to say things. What are they gonna do, fire me? I’ve been fired. What are you gonna do to me? It’s been done. You have such freedom because of that. You don’t care. I walk onstage, and it’s probably the only place in the world where I say, “I belong here.” That’s the only place. Laurence Olivier once said to me, “I walk onstage and I say to myself, this is my space.” And I thought, how does he feel that way. [Now] I walk onstage and go, this is my space. No question about it. I love it. I love performing.