NFL analyst and former Giants safety Mike Mayock took a timeout before next week’s NFL Draft to chat with Post columnist Steve Serby.
Q: How easy or difficult is Johnny Manziel to evaluate?
A: I think he’s the most different quarterback evaluation I’ve ever had to do. No. 1 is his style on the field, and No. 2, is off the field. And you have to buy into both to say that he’s a franchise quarterback. I love watching this kid play, and I think whatever “it” is, he has “it.” I think he’s got a little bit of that edge with a Lawrence Taylor, a Warren Sapp where Sundays, he’s gonna show up and want to be the best player on the field every Sunday. However, you’re gonna have to deal with some of his off-the-field stuff, and you’re gonna have to try to get him to develop into a pocket passer also. Put a gun to my head, and say I can take only one quarterback and I have to take one in the top 10, he would be my guy.
Q: By the same token, the lack of an edge seems to be hurting Teddy Bridgewater.
A: Yeah, that’s one of the harder ones for me just because basically, you go to a kid’s Pro Day at the quarterback position to confirm what you’ve seen on tape. And he’s the only top-level quarterback I’ve seen in 10 years, where I haven’t been able to confirm in person what I saw on tape. I think ultimately he’s gonna be a good quarterback in the league, but I think he’s a year or two away from being able to accept the challenge.
Q: Jadeveon Clowney — is he one of the easier ones to evaluate?
A: He’s easy on tape to evaluate. I keep saying that when he woke up this morning, he was the most talented defensive lineman in the world. That doesn’t necessarily translate into the best defensive lineman, unless he has the work ethic and the edge to want to prove that. And when you hand him $20 million guaranteed, will he? So, I think the jury is still out on the kid, but it certainly isn’t out on the talent.
Q: It’s almost as if the Texans have to draft him for fear of what he could become.
A: A little bit. But, quite frankly, if the Texans eliminate the quarterback as their primary consideration, I think consideration No. 2 should be trade down. If they can trade down to 4 or 5, still get Khalil Mack or one of those top players and pick up an extra player or two in this draft, I would prefer that. Then you take away any kind of downside with Clowney and you maximize this particular draft.
Q: How active trade-wise do you think the first round will be?
A: I think that the first three or four teams would love to trade down. The perception is this draft is so good and so talented, let’s go get some more picks. The reality of this draft is that certain positions are very thin — defensive tackle, edge rusher … offensive tackle, it drops off after about 8 or 9. So I think we’re gonna see some different places in the draft where there’s a run on a particular position. And I think early in the draft in that top 10, it’ll be interesting to see if Atlanta or somebody comes up to try and get Clowney.
Q: Then you’ll have teams maybe trading into the bottom of the first round for quarterbacks, right?
A: Yeah. … I think Seattle’s in great position, because I think two of the pressure points for quarterback are 26, because everybody knows if Cleveland doesn’t take one at 4, they’ll probably take one at 26. And then Houston at 33. If they don’t take a quarterback at 1, they probably gotta come around at 33 and take one. So Seattle sitting at 32 with no quarterback need becomes an intriguing place.
Q: You don’t see Dallas at 16 going for Manziel if he drops, do you?
A: I don’t know. That to me is really interesting. They got a 34-year-old quarterback coming off his second back surgery, and they’ve got a hometown hero and an owner that’s not afraid of making a splash. So, you add all that up, and if they got on the clock and Manziel is available. … I think there’d be a greater than 50/50 chance they pull the trigger on him.
Q: Let’s say Zack Martin, Eric Ebron and Aaron Donald are gone. At No. 12, who makes sense for the Giants?
A: You could be looking at the third wide receiver — is it [Odell] Beckham or [Brandin] Cooks? Or the first safety, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix.
Q: What are the Jets’ best options at 18?
A: I think they’re gonna have their choice of one of those four corners, and I think probably the fourth wideout. Which corner or two at that point survives versus the highest-rated wideout on their board.
Q: Is 12 too high for UCLA pass rusher Anthony Barr?
A: No. I think Barr is a year or two away from being dominant. But he’s got everything you want as an edge rusher. Part of the problem is you say, OK, can he play on first down? And I don’t know if he’s gonna be ready to stop the run this year in the NFL, but when San Francisco drafted Aldon Smith a couple of years ago, he wasn’t ready either. But in today’s NFL throw-first world where your sub-package is on the field 60-70 percent of the time, I think it’s OK if you’re drafting a premier edge guy that’s gonna develop, and that’s what this kid is.
Q: So you see him in maybe two years from now being a double-digit sack guy?
A: I think he should. He’s got the talent and the ability, as long as he’s willing to work, yeah I do.
Q: Is 6-foot-1, 285-pound Pitt DT Aaron Donald too small for the Giants’ interior?
A: I think the kid has done everything he’s gotta do. There’s some people that are knocking him, no doubt, but if he gets paired with a big nose tackle, a one-technique or whatever you want to call … he gets paired in a four-man front, where he can play that three technique, then I think you can draft him anywhere you want.
Q: They could pair him with the big kid, Jonathan Hankins, from last year, right?
A: He and Hankins would be really interesting, correct.
Q: Who would you like better, hypothetically, in that spot for the Giants?
A: I think that Barr has more upside as an edge rusher, but I think Donald is a safer pick. Looking at the Giants roster, I would probably take Barr though.
Q: Is 12 too high to reach for another offensive tackle if Notre Dame’s Zack Martin is gone?
A: If the four tackles are gone, then I think it’s a little rich for [Alabama’s] Cyrus Kuondjo.
Q: What do you think the likelihood is that Martin will be gone?
A: I’ve been telling everybody that Martin’s gonna be gone in the top 13 picks. So if it’s not the Giants at 12 or St. Louis at 13, he could certainly go 9 to Buffalo or 10 to Detroit, although there are sexier picks for both those teams.
Q: Describe the rush of Draft Day to being on the field in the NFL.
A: I think the closest thing to being on the field is doing a game. You get to smell the grass, and you’re talking to the players and the coaches, and that’s as close as you’ll get to being back on the field yourself again. The studio work, whether it’s draft or any studio, is exciting, and it’s a rush. What the draft does for me, it’s not about the three days we’re on television, it’s about what I’m doing today. I’m gonna go in and meet with an NFL general manager for probably a couple of hours. … I’m gonna meet with coaches. … I’m gonna watch tape with some of these guys that are friends of mine, that respect me, and vice versa. To me, that’s what it’s all about. It’s not about the television for me. It’s about the rush I get from talking football with people I respect.
Q: What round 1 of the NFL Draft like?
A: It’s a mixed emotion, because I liked it better when we only had two days and we did more picks for one day. The concentration on one night for the first round has turned it a little more into Hollywood, and a little bit more of a red carpet … “Entertainment Tonight” kinda deal. … I understand it’s bigger than that, and I have to kinda be a little different I think the first night than we are on the next couple of days. So I love it, ’cause you have the mock drafts, and everything built up to this first round. I have to admit, it also is a little bit frustrating to me just because I think there’s so much darn entertainment to it.
Q: Why aren’t you a general manager?
A: Let’s be honest here: I’ve never done it for real. I love it, and I have a passion for it, but the only people held accountable, they work for the 32 NFL teams. I’ve had some opportunities to go on the NFL side, and the timing had never really been right for me personally. But make no mistake about it: What I think, what Mel Kiper thinks, what Todd McShay thinks, doesn’t really matter. All that matters are the guys in the building.
Q: Would that still appeal to you?
A: Given the right situation, it would, yeah. But I’m so lucky, I’ve got it do good right now. It would have to be a great situation.
Q: What’s your scouting report on giants GM Jerry Reese.
A: I think Jerry did it the right way. He grew up on the scouting side. He’s got an innate feel for the evaluation process. I think he values not just his scouts, but also his coaches. I would give him a real solid grade.
Q: Jets GM John Idzik.
A: John’s a really thorough guy. Takes his time, he’s not a knee-jerk-reaction guy. This is the key year for them. Rex Ryan and John Idzik are on the spot a little bit, and I think the drafting of the quarterback [Geno Smith] last year in the second round was probably the right place to get him, but how that kid develops is gonna probably ultimately say a lot about whether or not this regime is successful.
Q: What did you think of the Michael Vick signing?
A: I think every team in the league is only as good as your backup quarterback, and I’m not saying he’s gonna be the backup, but I’m saying in today’s NFL, you’ve gotta have a guy that can step in and play, and play at a serviceable level. There aren’t 32 great, there aren’t even 32 really good starting quarterbacks, let alone 32 solid backups, so I thought that was an exceptional signing for them.
Q: What happened to Mark Sanchez?
A: Good question. The team had tremendous success, obviously, his first two years, and he was more of a complimentary person as opposed to the primary guy. They played great defense, they ran the ball, played special teams, and he didn’t hurt them. And I really felt like he was in a good position to develop as a very solid starting quarterback at that point, and it didn’t happen. I just felt like sometimes he tried to do too much. There was so much pressure on him to become “the guy,” and he never went from that really good complimentary player to take the next step. And I’m not sure why.
Q: Describe Philip Rivers.
A: The first time I really went out on a limb for a player was Philip Rivers. And when I went out on the limb, he was considered his senior year early to be kind of a third-round prospect. He didn’t really begin to take off until the Senior Bowl, and I pushed him hard, and I pushed him early. I remember going to my dad, and saying, “Dad, I did three Philip Rivers games on television, I’ve watched the tape, I’ve met the kid — I really believe in this kid.” And my dad was like, “Look, if you’re gonna make a mistake, make it yours. Don’t make it your buddy’s, don’t make it the scouts. Own your own decisions.” And I thought that was the best advice I’ve gotten since I got into this thing.
Q: Easiest players to evaluate?
A: Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck.
Q: What was Bill Parcells like as a head coach when he took the Giants job?
A: I felt like the biggest adjustment he had to make was understanding that he had to coach the entire team, and not just the defense. And he couldn’t be best friends with everybody anymore. And I could see a real difference heading into 1984. And it was kinda like it was his-way-or-the-highway. I think his true personality came out, and he became the leader of the entire team.
Q: You used to have to wake up Lawrence Taylor when he snored?
A: In the old days, the 16 millimeter tape you turned the lights out and you watched the defensive tale, and he would lay on the floor because God knows whatever he was doing the night before. And I had to lie there next to him, and every time he started snoring, I had to elbow him so that [defensive coordinator Bill] Belichick didn’t hear.
Q: Why were you assigned that task?
A: Because I was really the only rookie in the linebacker/defensive back room at that point?
Q: What was it like watching Taylor on the practice field or during the games?
A: Lawrence was not the greatest practice player, he didn’t like the weight room, he didn’t do things according to script. … But every Sunday, he believes that he was gonna be the baddest dude on the planet, and he usually was. It was an amazing thing to see him flip a switch.
Q: Have you encountered anybody close to his on-field mentality over the years?
A: That’s a good question. … I think there were certain guys with an edge — like Warren Sapp had an edge every Sunday. I didn’t play with Warren, but I’ve heard an awful lot about him from other people, and every Sunday, he had that kinda edge. In addition to their God-given natural ability, I believe it’s what makes them Hall of Famers, that ability to flip the switch and be special every Sunday.
Q: A Phil Simms memory.
A: I just felt like he was one of the toughest people I ever met, and he didn’t look like a tough guy, but … the memory I have of Phil is just him getting beat up almost every Sunday, and then sitting in an ice bath across from him on Monday mornings. And he had bruises everywhere, he could barely move. And he had this perception of being a pretty-boy, first-round quarterback, when the reality was there was nobody tougher.
Q: Harry Carson.
A: He just was a quiet guy that demanded respect. Everybody loved him, he was a tough guy. No one real memory, just a really good feeling about a quality player that worked hard and had a ton of respect in the locker room.
Q: Did you have any inkling Belichick would become the kind of coach he is now?
A: Yeah I did. I’m the son of a coach. I remember calling my dad after one of my first practices with the Giants, and I was like, “Dad, there’s this young coach that’s not much older than I am, that is the special teams and linebacker coach, and I can’t pronounce his name but this dude is special, he knows everything, he knows every position, he’s tough” … I said, “He’s gonna be something somewhere.”
Q: What do you remember about his relationship with Parcells back then?
A: My perception was it was Fric and Frac at that point. They both had a passion for the game, and they met up every morning and drank their coffee and were in early. Again, I’m 22 years old and to me it looked like they were joined at the hip with this wonderful passion for making the Giants special.
Q: Favorite Parcells anecdotes?
A: My rookie year, I was a free agent, nobody had a clue who I was, and I lined up on the wrong side of the formation on defense, and I almost picked a pass off in a preseason game against the then-Baltimore Colts. I got my hands on a pass, but I lined up on the wrong side. And it’s the first time Parcells even addressed me by name. And he said, “Mayock, you’re like a ball in high grass, son. You know what that is?” And I said, “No, sir.” And he said, “You’re lost.” Years later, I ran into him at 6 a.m. in the lobby of a hotel the week of the Senior Bowl, and I felt like I was 22 years old again, because I saw him in the lobby, we’re the only two. I’m pouring a cup of coffee, and I’m almost terrified. I’m a 40-something-year-old man, and he still scares me. And he calls me over, he said, “Son, you actually sound like you know what you’re talking about on that television.” I said, “Coach, thank you do much, I really appreciate that.” He said, “Don’t get too excited, I said you sound like you know what you’re talking about.”
Q: Describe the first time you played in a regular-season game.
A: It was 1982 against the Falcons. I remember being so nervous that I almost threw up in the locker room. I remember running through the tunnel like it was yesterday. The preseason is one thing, but it feels like the ground tilts. My best memory of that game is that my first tackle on special teams was on a punt against Billy “White Shoes” Johnson, and he’d grown up in the Philly area like I did and I always heard his name and heard how special he was, and it was kinda cool to tackle him.
Q: Did you have an NFL pick in your career?
A: I did not. I did not have a very good career and it didn’t last very long and I couldn’t stay healthy. My rookie season in ’82 was the strike-shortened season, and the first game back after the strike I tore my shoulder. And in ’83 I tore both my knees. And then in ’84 I went to training camp, I hurt the knee again, I was done. I’m not even gonna begin to try and tell you I was any good.
Q: Did you have to meet with Parcells the morning you were cut?
A: Yeah, it was a tough morning. It was training camp ’84, and I was barely there a week and I could barely backpedal, my knees were so bad. And I was only 25 years old, and I got called into Parcells at about 5 in the morning, and he just told me point blank, “You can’t run anymore.” And I said, “Well, I’ve got two ACLs.” He said, “Mike, my job’s the football coach, I’m not a doctor.” And he was right, that is his job. That was a tough morning.
Q: Did you try to hook on with another team or did you know your career was over?
A: Back in those days, the ACL was a kiss of death for a defensive back. The USFL had been trying to sign me for a couple of years, and as soon as the Giants cut me, the New Jersey Generals brought me in, they flunked me on their physical. And I knew. Both knees were shredded and I was done.
Q: And that’s when you went into commercial real estate?
A: And within a couple of years, pretty much knew I had to figure out a way to make my way back into football.
Q: Was your boyhood dream to play in the NFL?
A: My boyhood dream like a lot of kids was to play in either the NFL, the NBA or Major League Baseball.
Q: Who were some of your favorite players?
A: I grew up in Philly. Timmy Brown was my favorite Philadelphia Eagle … Johnny Callison was my favorite Philadelphia Phillie … and Billy Cunningham, along with Dr. J, were my favorite 76ers.
Q: You played baseball at Boston College, too.
A: Yeah I was football and baseball captain.
Q: What position?
A: I was a center fielder and a first baseman. I was left-handed. The funny thing of the whole baseball story is that when I was a senior in high school, I probably would have been a high draft pick if I gave any of the baseball teams any inclination that I would consider baseball. And my father, who was my high school football coach, kept pushing me to baseball — there were 10, 15, 20 baseball teams at every game my senior year — and I kept telling ’em, “I’m going to college to play football.” My dad, who was my football coach, kept saying, “No! You’re a better baseball player. Tell ’em you want to play baseball.” And (chuckle), obviously I was stubborn.
Q: Was your dad your idol growing up?
A: I don’t know if I had an idol, but I do know that my dad was my high school football coach for four years, he was my math teacher in eighth grade. … We had seven kids in our family. … All five boys played college football. It was kind of a way of life. I was the oldest, and I followed my dad from field to field to field, I scouted with him when he had to go scout the opponent coming up. Even at age 10, I was next to him calling out the plays, charting plays, I was the manager for his high school team before I got into high school. I don’t know if it was an idol, it was just that I respected him so much, and I realized years later how great a coach he was. … I was around some pretty good people, and to this day, I would put my father in that class.
Q: How would you describe your football mentality when you played?
A: I was a high school quarterback and a safety and I never came off the field. I did all the kicking, punting, whatever. My mentality was that I felt like I understood the game better than anybody else on the field in high school. I got into college, and I realized that was true, and that was one of the reasons I started as a true freshman at B.C., because I could understand the game and see the game. And I kinda felt the same way going into the NFL, that I had a little chip on my shoulder, I felt like I understood the game. Just because I ran 4.65 or 4.6 and somebody else ran 4.45, I felt like I could get to the same place just as fast if not more quickly because of recognition and diagnose, but unfortunately I could never prove that ’cause I couldn’t stay healthy.
Q: Your best Boston College football memory?
A: Probably [when] we beat Stanford year in Week 2 [in 1980]. John Elway was the quarterback, they were ranked in the top 10 or 12 in the country, and we intercepted Elway I think four or five times that night and I got one of ’em, and I got the Sports Illustrated Defensive Player of the Week and stuff. But the bigger thing was just that we had lost to Dan Marino and Pitt the week before, and they were No. 1 in the country and we almost upset them. So playing Marino and Elway back-to-back in hindsight was pretty interesting, and that Stanford win was huge.
Q: You intercepted one or two passes against Stanford?
A: I got one against Stanford and one against Pitt and Marino.
Q: Do you tweak them about that today?
A: I walked up to Marino years later, I think it was on a driving range somewhere, and he really didn’t really know me at that time, and I was like, “Dan, back in college, we played you and I got a pick on you.” And he looked at me, he goes, “Look, I don’t know who you are, but if I had a dime for everybody that told me they picked me, I’d have a gazillion dollars right now.”
Q: You were drafted by the Steelers. Any training camp memory?
A: My favorite one was Mr. Rooney, old Art Rooney, the original patriarch of the Steelers. I didn’t even think he knew my name, and we were coming off the hot, steamy, wet, rainy day in Latrobe, it’s 90-something degrees, I was covered in mud. And I’m walking off the field, it’s raining, he had an umbrella, the cigar in his mouth, and he said: “Hey Mayock, it’s a hard way to make an easy living, isn’t it son?” And I always thought that was a great synopsis of all professional sports.
Q: A Canadian football memory from your time with the Toronto Argonauts?
A: (Chuckle) Unfortunately, that’s an easy one, kind of a synopsis of my career. I worked my tail off when I got up there, I got my starting assignment for the first game I played, Toronto at Calgary, and I broke an ankle in the first half of the game and missed the rest of the season.
Q: How about being a sideline reporter for two years for the New Jersey Network for Princeton and Rutgers games?
A: One was thankfulness that Pat Scanlan, who hired me, cause that was my first television assignment. And secondly was how much I hated interviewing mascots and mothers and girlfriends and how much I really wanted to be up in a booth analyzing football.
Q: How many mascots did you interview?
A: Oh, I don’t know. … between that and ESPN, where I was a low-level sideline guy, I did football and baseball. … I think one time at a minor-league baseball game, I slid down. … At McDonald’s, they have those slides that go into the balls. … I’m a 38-year-old man, whatever it was, and I’m sliding through, out in left field, down a slide, into the balls, jumping up, going “Wow, it’s great here,” I’m whatever park, blah blah blah. Just feeling like, “Really? Did I get into this to do this? I’m never gonna get up in a booth, and talk football.”
Q: Three dinner guests?
A: JFK, Martin Luther King, Vince Lombardi.
Q: Favorite movie?
A: “Stripes.”
Q: Favorite actor?
A: Probably [Al] Pacino.
Q: Favorite actress?
A: Diane Keaton.
Q: Favorite singer or entertainer?
A: [Bruce] Springsteen.
Q: Favorite meal?
A: Steak au pouvre, medium, a bunch of french fries, Caesar salad, and a great glass of red wine.