The Post’s Steve Serby chatted with the former shortstop who served as manager and GM of the Yankees twice each in the George Steinbrenner era.
Q: The first time you met George Steinbrenner, at the Galt Ocean Mile Hotel, in spring training?
A: He had written down the numbers of the players that needed haircuts.
Q: Yours was one of them.
A: I just said, “Hello George.” He said, “Hi Stick.” He knew my name. I said, “You asked for these guys to get haircuts,” I said, “I don’t have any problem gettin’ a haircut.”
“OK good, good, I’m glad to hear that.”
Q: How would you describe your relationship with him?
A: He respected my opinion more than anybody’s — for a looong time.
Q: He fired you twice as manager.
A: He knew me too well. That was probably why I couldn’t manage for him. He would be in my office, he felt free, he thought he could say anything. (Joe) Torre had a honeymoon compared to Billy (Martin), (Bob) Lemon, myself, (Dick) Howser. (George) finally learned his lesson about jumping people, and firing people . . . ’cause the media really came down on him. The Buck Showalter thing shook George.
I always say this — George was the best owner for the New York fans that they could ever have. Who does the most for their fans? That’s probably the best owner. That’s why they forgave him, because they understood that he kept giving it back. He didn’t keep it, he didn’t put it in his pocket like a lot of the owners.
Q: Not long after he appointed you acting GM, Billy Martin fought the marshmallow man.
A: Now he’s sitting there, he was gonna fire Billy, he wouldn’t listen to me: “Now you stay out of this, you have nothing to do with this.”
Q: What did you want him to do?
A: I didn’t want him to fire him, he didn’t have to fire that fast.
Q: He fired Billy.
A: And he said, “Stick, you’re gonna have to manage this club.” I said, “George, you told me I could be the GM.”
Q: So you recommended Dick Howser, who was fired after winning 103 games.
A: He wasn’t gonna let me pick the next manager. He said, “Ohhhh no, you’re not gonna pick another manager like that.” I’m thinking, “I’m gonna be the GM, he’s gonna pick the manager?” I’m gone.
Q: But then he picked you?
A: Yeah, so he made me do it. I would never have done it if I could pick the manager. I just had a feeling that we were gonna have too many arguments.
Q: Billy’s relationship with George?
A: They didn’t really argue head-to-head. Very, very seldom did they ever have a real argument face-to-face. They talked about each other badly behind each other’s back. I’d be upstairs sometimes and I’d hear him talk about Billy, and then I’d be downstairs and Billy’d be badmouthing George.
Q: Billy’s bar fight with Ed Whitson?
A: I grabbed Whitson and pulled him away from the thing. Whitson didn’t want to fight, believe me. I went up to my room after we broke it up to get new Tiparillos, and I came back down, and (Ron) Hassey and Dale Berra — “You should have seen it, you missed it Stick.” I said, “What are you talking about?”
Q: Your relationship with Billy?
A: When I first came on, George put me in as a coach for Billy. Billy liked me as a player, he thought I was a tough player. (When Martin was managing Detroit) he even told Mickey Mantle, “I love Stick, [Bobby] Murcer and [Thurman] Munson.” And Mickey says, “Stick? Whaddya want him for?”
Later, Billy thought that I was George’s guy. . . . He heard something that George had said some day Stick’s gonna manage. So Billy didn’t trust me. But once Billy knew that I wouldn’t manage for George again, then he loved me. He told me I was the best third-base coach he ever had. Billy and I were real close after that. I kept him out of the bars a little bit on the road trips, because I’d get him to go play golf.
Q: George’s relationship with Reggie Jackson?
A: Good, on the most part. One time he thought Reggie’s bat was corked. He told us to try to find out if he was using a corked bat.
Q: You never found out?
A: I never heard that.
Q: Reggie’s three home runs in Game 6, 1977 World Series?
A: I was upstairs, the eye in the sky. We had a summary on each pitcher. So Reggie called up (laughs) and asked about what (Charlie) Hough throws, the knuckleballer, right? I said (laughs): “Knuckleballs!” So after the game Reggie says, “I called the thinktank, and Stick told me to look for a knuckleball certain pitch. . . . I don’t remember telling him anything except: “Knuckleballs.”
Q: When George was banished by Fay Vincent following the Howie Spira-Dave Winfield scandal?
A: He was sad about leaving. He was a little disgusted with some things at that time too about baseball. I don’t know exactly what. I could tell, he was hurt. I felt badly for him. I knew I wasn’t gonna see him for a while. I remember hearing a couple of names that he was thinking about choosing for a GM, so I called him and I told him about two names that I thought, “if you want a real, sincere baseball person, and you want a big name. . .” — Don Drysdale, and Don Sutton. He called back one time and he said, “Gene, I remember those two names, we’ve been kicking those names around that you mentioned before, but we keep coming back to one name.” I said, “OK.” He said, “Well aren’t you gonna ask who?” I said, “Well, who?” He said, “YOU!”
Q: Did George ask you for your recommendation about Torre before he was hired?
A: Yeah he wanted me to manage. I said, “George, you and I don’t get along when I manage.” He said, “Well who we gonna get, Stick?” I said, “George, the only guy out there is Joe Torre. He’s the only one that might have a little bit of a calming influence. I didn’t want to say that he won’t panic because you’re so rough, I didn’t want to say that.
Q: In light of Torre’s four championships, did you ever think to yourself, “Man that could have been me?”
A: Nah, I thought of that, but it wouldn’t have lasted. He’d be in my clubhouse with me. He knew me too well. And I’m not laid-back like Joe.
Q: Torre rejecting the incentive-laden contract?
A: I don’t think he should have done that.
Q: Why not?
A: Why would he want to go somewhere else when he really didn’t want to go somewhere else? He wanted to stay here.
Q: How would Don Mattingly have fared as Torre’s successor?
A: I think he’ll definitely be a good manager. If Joe steps down, they should definitely hire him. He’s diligent. He’s smart about the game. He’s good with people. He’s honest. He can bite his tongue when he has to. He’s got a lot of great qualities.
Q: Do you think Derek Jeter will ever own the Yankees?
A: He wants to buy a baseball team.
Q: George’s relationship with Brian Cashman?
A: On the most part, good. I remember one time, Brian says, “Stick, he’s just killin’ me. Every day. In the morning he starts calling me, and in the afternoon and then evenings. Lately, he’s just been wearin’ me out.” I said, “Ah, that’s good.” He said, “Whaddya mean that’s good? You keep saying ‘that’s good.’ ” I said, “I’d be angry if he did it any other way than he did it for me!” (Smiles). I used to tell him about Brian — Brian can handle a lot of balls up in the air.
Q: Mayor’s Trophy games against the Mets?
A: He wanted us to beat the Mets . . . Red Sox, Mets, college games . . . Tampa Bay . . . those were important games.
Q: Mickey Mantle played first base when you broke in with the Yankees.
A: Sometimes I’d handcuff him when I turned it loose — I had a good arm (chuckles). He and I’d play gin together ALL the time, and I crushed him in gin. He’d say, “Stick, get up here (St. Moritz Hotel), I want my money back.” Every day! Mickey would never let any young guys spend money, on a meal, or anything. Mickey was the best . . . best teammate ever.
Q: How did your hidden ball trick start?
A: I did it in the minor leagues a few times. I coulda done it more, but players get angry. When I was just getting ready to make my move (Ralph) Houk was crossing the line to take the pitcher out. Four or five times that happened.
Q: You thought you landed Greg Maddux (five years, $34 million) after taking him and his wife to the theater.
A: I dropped him off at the Plaza and he said, “In one day, you’ve made me feel better than anybody made me feel in Chicago in all those years.” When he left, he told Scott Boras, “Go ahead, make me a Yankee. I’m gonna be a Yankee.” While he was flying to Vegas, Atlanta called and made the offer to Boras. And when he got there, he took the ($28 million) offer and that was it.
Q: How close were you to trading Andy Pettitte in the Tino Martinez deal?
A: It was between Pettitte and (Sterling) Hitchcock, that’s all it was. It was one or the other, but they gave us the choice.
Q: The Roberto Kelly trade: what did you like about Paul O’Neill?
A: He was selective at the plate, he had power and he could hit for an average. And he had fire, ’cause I remember him kicking the ball back into the infield one time, they used to show that thing.
Q: Boyhood idol?
A: Lou Boudreau.
Q: Three dinner guests?
A: George; Bill Parcells; Babe Ruth.
Q: Favorite movie?
A: “South Pacific.”
Q: Favorite actor?
A: Robert Mitchum.
Q: Favorite actress?
A: Racquel Welch.
Q: Favorite meal?
A: Pork chops.
Q: Last time you spoke to George was at the Stadium on Opening Day?
A: Regular conversation. I’d tell him something about maybe Hopalong Cassady or something like that, ’cause Hopalong Cassady introduced Joan (Steinbrenner) to George.
Q: Brief conversation?
A: Yeah, I didn’t stay too long because he was much more quiet.
Q: What would you want to say to him if you had one a chance for last conversation with him?
A: We’re gonna try just as hard as we always did. I think I helped him with patience, and I think he helped me with the work ethic.
Q: Do you think he knew how much Yankees fans came to love him?
A: Yeah, I think he knew that, yeah. He knew that.
Q: How do you know he knew that?
A: I could tell. He didn’t say it. But I knew he knew.